Alenka Second Appearance ALL PIECES

[Speaker 1] (0:00 – 6:18)

Welcome to the Freedive Cafe, episode 154 with Alenka Artnik. My name is Donny, I’m the host of the Freedive Cafe. The Freedive Cafe is the long-form interview podcast that explores the backstories, the training, the challenges, and the combined wisdom and personal philosophies of the world’s freedivers.

You can find this podcast at freedivecafe.com, freediveandthrive.com, and on all good podcast players. And the video version of the show is available on YouTube or will be in a couple of days, depending on when you’re listening. A massive shout out to the Patreon supporters and welcome to new patrons.

Since the last time I posted, Morgan, Olga, Nicholas, Miguel, and Adrian. And sorry if I’ve missed anyone. The Patreon family makes all this possible and I couldn’t do it without them.

If you want to show your love for the show and get access to some exclusive content, then visit patreon.com slash freedivecafe. It’s been two months since I last released an episode, which I think is the longest or one of the longest breaks I ever had. I was very, very busy building out the little blue and getting it ready for the season.

And it kind of overwhelmed me a little bit, to be honest, but finally it is ready and I am therefore ready to turn my attention to the podcast again. The little blue is my training center here in Dahab and it’s amazing. I’ve already run a lot of coaching sessions out of here and a couple of courses.

I very much look forward to welcoming you to Dahab to learn freediving, continue your journey in freediving, or just pop in and have a coffee looking out over the amazing lighthouse bay. I think the next episode of the show will be another lost episode from the Patreon archives, but I’ll keep the guest secret for the moment. And then hopefully after that, we will have Erica Chagatay returning to the show with another on location interview here in Dahab.

Erica is a scientist who focuses on freediving, so we’ll have another science conversation for you. And you can already start sending in science related questions to me if you want. On today’s episode, we are meeting with a lady who needs a little introduction.

Alenka Arknik is the deepest self-powered freediver in the world, diving well into the 120s now. I’ve had the pleasure of training with Alenka and conversing with her on all manner of topics recently, and I’m continuously impressed with her philosophy of freediving and how she approaches life. This was a wide ranging conversation covering everything from the heavy and dark subject of doping and freediving, her training

periodization, and we muse on things like narcosis and mental clarity.

Alenka was on location in Dahab for this one. We recorded the video versions and it will be either out already on YouTube at Freedive and Thrive or in the next couple of days, depending on when you’re listening. In the video version, you can see lots of footage from a training session at the Blue Hole and some of Alenka’s deepest dives.

Okay, let’s head over to the little blue and chat with Alenka Arknik. Let’s dive. You know, the last time that you were on the podcast, that was episode 57.

I was just listening to it earlier today. You know, that was five years ago. Yeah, I can imagine.

It’s crazy. It’s crazy for me to think that’s five years that I’ve been doing this for five years, more than five years, seven years. Absolutely insane.

Yeah, since that time, you know, you had a couple of world records at that time. Since that time, you have become the absolute deepest freediving woman in the world. So, congratulations.

And I know that’s not the point really, but congratulations on the depths that you reached. So, it’s been quite a while. So, let’s catch up with what you’ve been doing in the interim, but also because it’s been such a long time, we can also revisit a little bit some of the topics about training and things like that, that perhaps have changed over the years or perhaps not.

Okay. So, what brings you to Dahab this time? Well, training.

So, obviously, yeah, it’s the beginning. No, it’s not the beginning, but let’s say I started my depth preparations. And so, yeah, basically I need the depth and it’s also very, it’s practical for me because I’m living in Geneva and then, yeah, it’s very practical to come to Dahab.

Last year, actually, I came to Dahab after seven years. I had kind of like a seven-year break. It was also, this is the place where I started freediving, depth freediving and where everything started anyway.

So, it was interesting that it took me like seven years to come back here and I kind of, you know, broke the ice and now it looks like I’m going to be coming here more often. Yeah, I have to say quite a lot of things have changed since and I really like it. I like the vibe here.

It’s really cool. Yeah, I was going to ask you like how it has changed for you and how you perceive how it’s changed, like what’s different about it now? I would say the main difference, well, there are some other, it’s kind of like it’s more mixed.

You know, I see this, what’s the name, those IT nomads, these guys working remotely. [Speaker 2] (6:19 – 6:20)
Digital nomads. Yeah, exactly.
[Speaker 1] (6:20 – 14:56)

I see those guys and more kind of like youngsters from Cairo and it’s more mixed everything. So, this is nice. It’s not only about, you know, freediving and that’s good.

It’s a bit more mixed. But also, yeah, there are many more, you know, like food is super important, a very, very important part of the whole process. So, there are many more options and yeah, that’s kind of like a huge bonus, let’s say.

Yeah, I know a lot of people are sad about the loss of the simple life and the way it used to be. And, you know, there’s more buildings and more businesses and more cafes and more restaurants and more shops and more people. But this is also part of what makes it nice here in Dahab is that we step out into the water and, you know, a couple of hundred meters from the shore, we have the depth, but also we can come straight back into the restaurant and we can have a good meal and we can have a good coffee and we have options.

We can have brownie there and we have pasta there and curry there and this and that. Yeah, absolutely. But I think, you know, the spirit of Dahab is still here.

It’s still Dahab, it’s still Dahab. You know, when you come here, the smell of the goats never left, you know, it’s still here. And congratulations on becoming a married woman.

Shout out to Florian, your husband, who’s back in Switzerland right now in Geneva. Yeah. So that’s obviously one big change that’s happened in the last few years.

What do you think of this place? You mean your new center? I love it, man.
It’s the best. Look at the location you have here. The showers are finished now. You didn’t get the chance to see them. Super, super, super nice. Very good place.

Yeah, so we would like to be sitting up on the balcony right now, overlooking the water, but I was saying to Alenka, five days in the year the south wind blows and this is one of the days. So we’re sitting down here in the classroom area now. It’s a very special day, I guess.

Yes, I mean, it’s an acknowledgement from the universe that you are here to have this conversation. Sure. Give us a little brief rundown of the highlights of the last five years and maybe some of the lowlights as well.

Oh my God, the last five years, I really need to think about that. That’s like, oh, I was not thinking about that, you know, I’m just like, keep on going. Basically, you said it just now, I’m a married woman.

That’s like probably the biggest change in my personal life. You also said before, I made a couple of world records in between. Obviously, I implemented some new trainings.

But I don’t know, you know, man, I’m just living. I try to be in the present as much as possible, being in the flow and seeing, let’s see what’s going to happen tomorrow. I’m not even really thinking so much about the past.

If you have a specific question, I can answer to you. Okay, specific question. We’ll discuss the bigger dives, the deeper dives, like coming into the 120s is like, you know, it’s a huge thing that I think, and I don’t know about you, but in some sense, not a lot of people were thinking about those numbers five years ago.

Even, you know, maybe in a fantastical kind of way, but it didn’t seem just within reach. As now it’s, it’s becoming normal, it’s becoming normal to dive over 100 meters for a lot of people. It’s, you know, it’s like 100 is the new 80 or maybe even the new 70, you know, it’s, it’s becoming like that.

It’s changed a lot. And that’s good, you know, for the sport that people are realizing that they’re capable of much more than they thought they were. And everybody is capable of attaining very deep dives if they, if they train in the right way and approach it in the right way.

There’s also been a lot of negative energy running around the free diving community in the last few years. I know we had a long discussion about this the other day there, and I suggested that probably we’re not going to talk about it, but I think it would be, wouldn’t be right to not raise the subject of the, the issues surrounding doping and the sport. And if you feel, if you feel comfortable talking about it.

Well, And how it’s affected you. It’s, it really, it affected me quite a lot. It’s a very heavy topic.

Yeah. Let’s, let’s, let’s start from saying that, you know, you, you are one of the people who believes that there is doping in the highest levels of the sport and it’s affected you to the point where, you know, you may have had to change your plans and, and, and the competitions that you would attend and things like that. Yeah.

Let me, let me also add that I’m one of those people who until recently didn’t believe there was doping in our sport. I always heard the rumors, but I never really believed, you know, because I thought, well, you know, there are tests, they’re doing a doping test. So how can you, you know, how can you dope yourself?

You know, what, what is the doping here? You know? So I, I honestly, I was thinking, you know, could be, you know, the fact could be jealousy could be the fact that some people couldn’t, couldn’t accept that could be just rumors, gossip, you know?

And I was, I was really, really disappointed when I find out that there is, there is something about it that doping is existing in our sport and people, you know, obviously doesn’t have as maybe how to say that maybe moral morality to not to do it. And even in our sport, you know, and of course they took it personally because freediving is obviously for me, it’s just much more than just a sport, you know, it’s my life. So obviously I took it very, very personal and it’s, and that’s why it affected me greatly.

Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things that, I think I also had this feeling, this innocence about freediving that it would be, you know, it wouldn’t exist in the sport in the beginning.

And then maybe there was very, very few people who are, of course, some people have already been caught in freediving. We know, we know that people have been caught, banned, but even though I’ve followed for years performance enhancing drug use and other sports, like even as entertainment, I like to watch the bodybuilding stuff, you know, like how crazy people get with using drugs there and in a CrossFit or triathlon or swimming or whatever it is. And in fact, what a lot of people don’t realize is that there is high level, there’s doping at the high level of sport in every single sport.

And way, way more than you would think. I was looking at something yesterday. It was, maybe I can even put it up on the screen here in the video, but it was a list of the top 20 hundred meter dash times.

And all the names crossed off of all the athletes who had been retroactively popped for performance enhancing drug use. And basically the only person left on the list was Usain Bolt. Everyone else had been, had been busted.

Something like 400 plus canyon runners caught using drugs. And that’s just like the tip of the iceberg. So as we move into these greater depths and as the sport becomes more sporty, in a sense, there’s an inevitability to the fact that some people are not sharing the same mindset and the same philosophy towards freediving that we are that gave us that instance in the first place.

And there will be, there will be people who come in cheating for one reason or another in sport. Yeah. I’m hearing quite often, they say that, you know, the sport is developing, which it is.

And with that doping, unfortunately comes. Yeah. I don’t like it though.

When people say, sometimes they say it in a way that it sounds like, ah, the sport is developing. So it’s like, it’s normal. It’s natural that we have dope in the sport.

But almost like an alibi. [Speaker 2] (14:56 – 14:57) Yeah. Yeah.
[Speaker 1] (14:57 – 21:30)

And, and, but it’s, it’s, it’s not the, it’s, but freediving is such a small sport with such a small community. And of course we, we know all these people, we, we all know each other to one extent. We know we’re, we’re only one person removed from anyone else in the sport.

Yeah. And I think freediving, as I said before, no, I don’t think it’s only for me, I, not only a sport, but it’s like really a way, a lifestyle, no? We always say freediving is a way, it’s a lifestyle.

And I think there are a lot of people that freediving actually represent for them as well, that it’s not only a sport. So already because of that is different. If you had to say some words to people who may be considering using performance enhancing drugs in freediving in order to get deeper, like coming from your heart, what would you say to them?

It’s very interesting because I would say that like, like everything in life, right? It’s, it’s not only about doping or let’s say cheating curves or instant results. It’s not only about doping and it’s not only about sport.

I was, I think it’s probably in general, in sport, in life, uh, like, you know, aiming for this absolute result without any real, I would say purpose or, you know, just like blindly going for the result, no matter what is the, the, maybe the, what are the side effects? Um, it’s, it’s just not worth it. It’s not worth it because at the end of the day, this will not make you feel better.

Like you’re just like digging a bigger hole to yourself and it doesn’t go just for this matter. It’s in general, you know? And that’s why I think, um, I always, I always communicate these in freediving even before this affair and this shit came out, uh, you know, about the approach in freediving, you know, that we should have like a bigger purpose in everything in life, you know, um, a purpose that is basically motivating us to, to keep on developing, to keep on going.

And, um, yeah, I think, uh, I think it’s, it’s, it’s a bit sad because anyway, when you see the system is kind of working and everybody’s kind of like working for themselves, it’s, it’s, it’s a very selfish community. It’s a very selfish society. And, um, you know, and then it’s very interesting to see the level of depression and anxiety just like growing.

And I think it’s not a coincidence, you know, that these, these two things are happening simultaneously. And, uh, yeah. So I would say, you know, like it’s, it’s, I really think, I really believe it’s really, really not worth it.

It’s not worth it. I, I can imagine that maybe they just see it now, this, this result, this, this, I don’t know, this, this, uh, this, uh, beautiful, we call it the cellophane, you know? Um, but, um, it’s, it’s very tricky and it will come with a very high cost and you will have to pay for it.

And, uh, just to not dwell too long on this topic, because we’re trying to have a nice time here, but, um, and we did it already too, too, too much. So my God, let’s move forward. Some whiskey.

Um, but, uh, just one last thing on that is like, you know, from a practical point of view, what is necessary from the side of the freediving organizations and the organizers to, um, better combat, um, and to catch people who do decide to use PEDs? Yeah. Well, the thing is, because the sport is so, uh, first of all, it’s new and it’s specific, so it gets a bit more complicated.

Um, the thing is that the, the performance, adhesive drugs that are, let’s say, helping freediver, freedivers on freediving, uh, they are, you know, not at all helping other sports. So there is this list of PEDs by the list. It’s, it’s very general.

It’s not, uh, let’s say, uh, fitted or customized for freediving. And that’s the first problem. And also it’s very complicated to put these drugs on the list.

It’s a very complicating process. Um, so from what I know, the, the main organization, CMAS, uh, the organization, they try to, to, they work with Avada. They try to put these drugs, uh, obviously they need to do a lot of scientific, uh, researches about it, which, uh, which actually drugs are helping or are performance-enhancing drugs for freediving.

So as I said, it’s a very long, uh, procedure. Uh, meanwhile, we can just hope that people will, uh, choose to behave with dignity. Um, but yeah, that’s, that probably would be the first thing to do.

And, uh, obviously, uh, there should be more testing, more controls, I hope for, you know, it’s called this blood passport. So they would also make like tests of the blood, not only urine, uh, during the whole year. Um, that would probably help a little bit, I guess.

Yeah. But I’m not an expert in this. So yeah, the organization is the one that should do anything, everything that it’s, that it’s necessary to protect the sport and us athletes at the end of the day, you know, because it goes for it’s, that’s the topic.

That’s the reason to protect us. Well, let’s hope for the best. And I guess also coming back to the size of the sport and the smallness of our community is that it’s, at least if

you are cheating, you can’t really hide.

So, so well, uh, when, you know, there are so many eyes on you and people, you know, it’s not like you can disappear into the crowds, um, in a bigger sport like running or cycling or something like that. So, um, it’s really not worth it. No, it’s not worth it.

No. Um, okay. Moving on. [Speaker 2] (21:30 – 21:30) Yeah.
[Speaker 1] (21:30 – 22:11)

Yes. Um, how would you say your, what, what has changed most in your approach to training for free diving in the last five years has much changed. I was just listening to your interview and I was, uh, you know, you were already working with Taya back then.

You had just started working with Taya, Taya who, uh, Kosh, Kosh, Koshniak, who is, uh, uh, Alenka strength and conditioning coach, who’s also here in, uh, DAHAB. And is she coming tomorrow? She has today the presentation.

Will she be diving tomorrow? Oh yeah. [Speaker 2] (22:11 – 22:11)
Yeah. Okay.
[Speaker 1] (22:11 – 22:38)

Then there will be some pictures of her up on the screen right now. I’ll be there tomorrow. Take some pictures and, um, we’ll get some pictures of Taya.

Who’s been, I guess, instrumental in developing your capacity over the last few years. But, um, what has changed the most, if anything? Well, I’m thinking, you know, when was the last time, as you said, like five years ago.

So I guess this is when we started maybe with Taya working together. [Speaker 2] (22:39 – 22:39)
Yeah.
[Speaker 1] (22:39 – 36:48)

It was, it was, you know, it was a slow start. We just kind of got to know each other and we were, we had some, some talks and so on. And then this relationship kind of during the years developed, um, at that time, um, I was aware that I need to work on this

aspect, uh, the aspect of technique because my technique was really not good.

And it was something I, you know, I didn’t want, I kind of didn’t want to work on it because it was the annoying part of free diving and I didn’t like it. And, um, I didn’t have any knowledge in other things I could kind of learn by myself, but in this aspect, aspect, I didn’t have any knowledge and it was really, as I said, it was not, uh, something I was enjoying so much. So yeah, I needed the help.

And at the same time she approached me and then, uh, yeah, this is how our relationship basically started. And during these years, you know, you can see the, obviously the, the physical development, um, that basically reflects directly into the better technique. And, uh, I would say that was a big, a big change, a big development.

Yeah. Yeah. And it’s, I think it’s important to note as well, like that’s five years, that’s half a decade, you know, things don’t just happen overnight when you implement a new, a new training protocol or get a new coach or take a different approach, you know, like it’s a, and I think that’s an important lesson also for also reflecting back on the last topic a little bit as well as that free diving is a sport that when you try to push and try to go too fast and try to go too deep too quickly, it pushes back on you quite strongly. Absolutely.

I mean, it’s a, it’s a really long process, you know, let’s say what I’m capable to do today with her in the gym, there is no way I was able to do that, you know, years ago, uh, or the training I’m doing today in the pool or all the volume and the intensity that I’m doing today in the past, I was not able to do that. So you need time in order to be able to actually train like that. That’s something super, super important.

And then, you know, again, free diving is such a specific sport and you really need to be careful of your nerve system, right? Uh, you can trigger it a little bit too much, a little too easily. And, uh, that’s something you really need to be careful.

And, uh, you know, there are no magic, remedies, magic, uh, recipes, uh, magic ways, fast ways. There aren’t like in life, you know, if you want to, if you really wish to, to, to choose something, you need to put all your heart into it. And maybe it’s even better if you don’t even expect an outcome and you just like put every single day, the best you can into whatever you’re doing and, uh, hope for the best basically not expecting much.

When we first spoke, um, you, we discussed your background in Slovenia and how you had done a lot of pool training. Um, when you first started free diving is pool training, still something that you consider to be essential and super important for your, for your training? Absolutely.

I mean, come on, we are free divers, right? This is our element. So I’m a bit, uh, I’ve been a bit, uh, um, um, let’s say surprised how much, uh, the gym is, uh, getting very important lately.

Right. It’s like, it’s, it’s getting like a special renommé in our sport, which obviously it is very important. Right.

But let’s go one step after another. Right. And let’s, let’s, let’s work on the most important element, which is water.

And then maybe, you know, improve and also do some other exercises like gym. But I really think, uh, we should all spend as much time in the water as possible because like, you know, anyway, uh, the, the, the gym will not give you the, I don’t know, the, the, the sensitivity for the water, which in free diving is so crucial, you know, at the end of the day, if you want to be efficient in the water, you have to spend time in the pool. You have to do kilometers and kilometers, years and years.

Um, this is, this is on the way, I think to improve without any shitting curves. Yeah. You’re breaking a lot of hearts right now.

You know, living in Dahab, it’s hilarious because here, I think maybe more than any other place in the world, except maybe Panglao, but here it’s like the highest concentration of aspiring deep free divers in the world and trying to get a pool buddy is almost impossible here. You know, it’s like, it’s, uh, I remember, you know, in the past, but that’s very interesting. I will tell you, because in the past, when I was here, my first season, when I was here, uh, and I was already, you know, doing a lot of, uh, pool training, I would be the only one doing pool training, especially during the winter time.

And that was really hard, you know, like I really couldn’t find a training buddy, but today, uh, there are more and more because it’s kind of hard to find a line here. You know, we are very limited with pools in Dahab. So we have a Brian’s pool and Catrin’s pool, and, uh, you really need to reserve it in advance because more and more people are aware, I guess that it’s very important part of training.

Yeah. But, but also a lot of people are coaching and teaching as well. And, uh, and that also limits the availability of the pool, but I, I love the Canyon pool personally.

I think it’s an amazing facility there. And, uh, honestly, I think you can suck up the little bit of a colder water temperature during the colder months as well, and still get a lot of good training and in the pool, uh, if you can find a buddy. Um, so, so yeah, a lot of water, a lot of water as much as possible, even if it’s a, well, you know, if you don’t like, uh, so much the pool training, I mean, as, as, as long as you can spend the time in the water, like in the sea, uh, you can do amazing, uh, training, obviously in the depth in the sea, not really deep.

I’m not saying about deep diving, but like you can do amazing training, uh, in the depth. This is basically still my main training. My main training is depth training.

So what I’m really interested in right now is how, how, how do you periodize the lead up

to a competition and how, how many times would you go through a cycle in a year? Would you do twice or three times? Could you do three times?

Well, I do have, uh, basically two peaks, two competitions and winter time is my base period. And it’s like, you know, a typical base period when you do basically everything, you train your strength. You also do of course, uh, cardio because you do a lot of technique and swimming.

What do you use for cardio? You in the water? Cardio would be the water.

Cardio would be mainly the water. And also I like to do some trekking. Uh, I have some really nice, uh, mountains there around where I live in Switzerland.

Yeah, exactly. So also in France, because we, we live on the border and yeah, it’s a, it’s a really cool, uh, it’s a really cool way to, to, to do some sport. You know, it’s also for me, it’s not just like doing sport, but it’s something I really enjoy, but in the same time, I’m also training my, my physical overall shape.

You know, um, I wouldn’t, I, I wouldn’t really enjoy, I don’t really enjoy running. I’m not, I’m not a runner. I’m not made for running, but I do like to swim.

So swimming would be, let’s say, uh, maybe my cardio. Uh, but it’s never just like, I don’t do it for the sake of cardio. Obviously you want to feel good.

No. Uh, but I do it more for the, the, the, the strength and, uh, the technique, which is amazing recovery as well. Right.

If you’re swimming and you’re doing gym at the same time, like getting the blood flow and having the zero impact of swimming, I think is really good for recovery as well. Yeah. Yeah.

I guess also. Yeah. When you, when you do a lot of gym, let’s say in this period, I do more gym than usual.

Then for sure, swimming helps you to be, to keeps you softer. Let’s say, because you don’t want to get stiff, right? So it’s good to have this element of water present.

And that’s why I keep saying, you know, pool should be, water should be present all year long as much as possible. Uh, then let’s say this is, you know, first of all, I don’t have like a strict periodization. Uh, let’s say I try.

Obviously I have like per month and I have a competition that I am like aiming for and trying to pick my best shape for this competition. But then in between, I always kind of like change a little bit. I also, every year I implement some new methods because freediving is still such a new sport.

And, you know, you have to, you have to experiment sometimes things, otherwise you never move forward. Right. Um, so, but yeah, I have the general, let’s say plan.

And then I am, I see him from, from weeks to weeks. Uh, if I need to change something, uh, let’s say now in this period, um, when I started to do depth training as well, it’s usually in the very similar period, like around February, I would start my depth training as well. I really like to train like that.

I’ve been always training like that. That means that I do a lot of depth training, not deep diving. Um, I like to, uh, I like to say that because, um, I think it’s important to not to do too, too much in terms of deep diving.

Um, you can very easily take, you know, a couple of months off from deep diving and you can do amazing training with, uh, really not, not that, that deep, you know, like I do a lot of training around 60, 70 meters and they’re really good training. You know, it’s a very good training, especially when you’re with small fins, for example, I like to do that. This is my, my favorite, uh, drill, I would say.

Uh, but being present in the sea, uh, with the, with the depth, with the pressure, I think it’s really beneficial. I mean, it, it only makes sense, right? I mean, uh, it’s like a free diving is, uh, not any different than other sports.

And if you’re a swimmer, you are swimming two times per day, every day, 20 years. So free diving is not any different. Obviously you have to be careful of the nerve system as I said before, and not over train.

It’s very specific. What’s happening with our body during the dive. So you need to be smart.

You need to listen to yourself. You need to know what you’re doing. Um, if you don’t have these experiences, you need to ask for help.

You need to ask for a coach. You need to look for that. If you really have a plan to improve.

Um, and yeah, basically, you know, in this, in this period for the next few months, it’s going to be a lot of volume, a lot of intensity. I’m going to be doing, as I said, depth training, uh, which means repetitions. So no deep diving repetitions, small things likely.

And, um, uh, gym training, uh, still, uh, a lot of pool training, dynamic, uh, technique. Um, so yeah, it’s a lot of volume, a lot of intensity for the next few months and then, you know, come closer to the event. Uh, I’m gonna start doing more specific training, which means also the volume will be, will be less, lesser, and I’m going to be more doing specific training drills.

And, uh, how many times would you train strength at this time of year? So basically, um, if my cycle, um, so I have kind of like, I still do that. Like, this is very interesting.

I really like this, this, the way how I trained in the past and I still do the same. So basically I would do three days training day off, three days training, two days off. Right.

So it’s basically cycle off at the end, seven, eight, nine days. Uh, depends also the rest days. I also see, uh, how I feel maybe sometimes anymore.

When you say three days training day off, three days training, we’d be like, each day would be one kind of workout. So it’s like this. So in the morning I do, uh, either depth or dynamic training.

So either like it would be in this, in this season, two depths and one dynamic in the morning. So basically, uh, specific free diving trainings. Um, and then in the afternoon I would do strength training.

Uh, so gym training and swimming technique, a lot of pool training in the afternoon. That would be the, the, um, let’s say the, the, the, the, the three days. So basically I have six trainings in three days and then I have a rest and the rest day is a full rest day, full rest, full rest.

And then I repeat the same and then I take two days, but this is not like secret, you know, I changed this when I feel or if I feel that I have to change something. Okay. So let’s just ask that one question again, which is, um, um, if you do something, um, like, uh, yoga, nature, relaxation, um, uh, to, to help you recover between sessions in the afternoon.

Sorry. Sorry about that. No worries.

We’re just repeating the same question. We’re just doing this again. That was so good the first time.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You see now, uh, it’s, it’s, it’s good that I don’t have expectations to do the same reply because then, uh, the reply will not be as good. So let’s just, I know it was good, but I can’t, I can’t remember. I know there was a sentence that we, we liked it both, but I already forgot about it.

So I would try to be in the flow. Okay. Okay.

Let’s flow again. You were saying that, um, you know, it’s super, it’s essential at the highest levels of any sport, I guess, that to, to, to have a good recovery principle. And also, uh, the other thing was that we also need to treat ourselves as well.

[Speaker 2] (36:48 – 36:49) Absolutely.
[Speaker 1] (36:49 – 38:14)

Yeah. And I think, uh, maybe in freediving even more because we’re triggering our nervous system so much, you know? So sometimes, sometimes when I see people that are like so much committed and they’re training so much, but then they feel guilty when they, uh, I don’t know, they would have a glass of wine, for example, or they would treat themselves a little bit.

Uh, it’s, uh, it’s very important to, to have this, this, um, this balance in life and not to feel guilty about it. You know, you need to reward yourself and not feel guilty about it. You know, I’m trying really, really hard to stay away from alcohol at this point, as I focus heavily on my training and Alenka Artnik sitting here, like the devil on my shoulder.

I know everything you’re saying is perfectly true, but it’s like, oh, a glass of wine is going to be okay. Okay. Yes.

Yes. You’re like, oh, maybe that ice cream won’t be so bad after all. Alenka says it’s okay.

Alenka says it’s okay. Of course. I mean, come on.

Honestly, no, really, we are restricting ourselves too much. You know, when we, like we, we’re expecting too much and, um, at the end of the day, honestly, we live once. So yes.

And I think the core along was allowed along the lines of, uh, if you’re going to do something, fucking enjoy it. Fucking enjoy it. Do it properly.

All righty. Let’s just take a little pause to hear from Ted Hardy about freediving training secrets.

[Speaker 2] (38:14 – 39:29)

Hello, Freedive Cafe listeners. There are a lot of awesome reasons to tune in to the Freedive Cafe podcast. One of which is to improve your own freediving performance by gleaning pearls of wisdom from some of the best in our sport.

Another way to dive deeper and feel more comfortable when you’re down there is to actually implement a training plan. So what are you currently doing to improve your freediving performance and abilities? When I asked most people this, they say, well, you know, Ted, I go diving whenever I can, but it’s hard because of the kids and the job.

Let’s be clear. Diving whenever you can is not a training plan. And that’s why I created

Freediving Training Secrets.

It’s my newest online course where I’ll put you on a six-week training program you can do from home without having to go to the pool or the ocean. Each week, you’ll unlock a new video where I’ll tell you exactly what to do, why you’re doing it, and what to focus on during the exercises. You’ll be happy to know that the traditional O2 and CO2 tables didn’t even make it into my top 10 dry land training exercises.

If I thought they were awesome, I’d use them. You’ll notice as you go from week to week, you’ll be building on what you did the previous week and unlocking new exercises. So you won’t be stuck doing the same thing over and over again.

To learn more about the program, visit freedivingtrainingsecrets.com or click the link in the show notes. Dive safe out there. It’s not even that hard.

[Speaker 1] (39:30 – 53:57)

Thanks, Ted. All right, let’s get back to Alenka. But that also makes me think of a point, which is you have to have a certain maturity and a certain maturity to approach things that way.

Because what I do see here, being surrounded by people who want to train for freediving all the time, is they want to dive deep every day. They go on diving, blah, blah, blah. But at the same time, they are not making the little sacrifices that maybe they need to make, which is like, okay, if you’re going to have that much coffee or eat that much food at that restaurant or go to that many social gatherings, there is an element to…

I would say you need to have your lifestyle in place first, a healthy lifestyle in place first, and have that as the 80-90% of the way that you live your life, and then have space for treating yourself 10% of the time. Absolutely. But if it’s the other way around and you are like, you’re not sleeping properly, you’re not resting properly, you’re eating crap all the time, and then you think that by taking some fish oil every night, that’s you compensating for it.

It doesn’t work like that. We do have to make some sacrifices. Absolutely, absolutely.

This was coming from the perspective that you are disciplined and you’re following a healthy lifestyle or whatever you’re supposed to… Commitment, I would say. You are fully committed.

I’m talking about these cases. When you’re fully committed and disciplined because you’re aiming to achieve something, it’s important to sometimes cut a little bit and give yourself a little treat and not be maybe even too ambitious. Sometimes it can be…

It’s a pain in the ass because you can see that even if they achieve a great result, they

still don’t show happiness. It’s important to understand these things and as they say, to find happiness in small things. This is also something that I like to say because I believe in that.

Let’s say a big result, a world record, will not make you happy if you don’t enjoy little things in life. It just will not make you happier. It’s how it is.

If you don’t appreciate life and little things in life, trust me, you will not have the capability to enjoy big things. Do you continue to do strength work and pool work all the way up to a competition in some form? Yeah, not so much the gym, no.

Would you do strength work or maintenance once a week or something like that? I think I would really skip the gym part. Maybe I would just do some bodyweight.

For the straight, what I do actually and I really prefer that and as I said before, I think it’s more important to stay in the water and to be in the water as much as possible and to do movements that are specific and really simulating what we do. For example, a beautiful exercise for what I think it is in that period would be doing some swimming, resistance swimming with this elastic band. I think it’s a perfect training and you can do it also in breath hold if you want to suffer a little bit more and be even more specific.

So I would suggest something like that. This is what I do anyway, but heavy lifting I don’t see really the point. Also, it’s very interesting because it’s not only about the physical aspect.

We talk all the time about the physical aspect. It’s also this spiritual, the mental, the emotional aspect which is so important and reflects so strongly in the water and this is something we maybe need to talk more about. For me, specifically in that period, it’s very interesting because it comes naturally.

For me, it comes naturally that I don’t want to lock myself in a gym because gym somehow for me, it might sound funny, but for me, it represents this physical, super grounded, rational aspect and in that moment, I don’t want that. In that moment, what I wish for is rather gracefulness and that I cannot find in the gym. So that’s why I am aware that I need to work on my strength, but then I’d rather do it in the water.

In that moment, as I said, for me, it comes naturally now that I am shifting and I can see that I am, let’s say, aiming for more peace, for more quiet. I don’t want to spend so much time on my phone like the kind of like just naturally finishes because I am annoyed by it and it happens naturally just before these big performances. I guess I know this is like before that I can do a lot of physical and I don’t need to be maybe so much constantly aware of myself and then in that moment, I really need to work on my feelings.

This is also the period where I go a bit deeper and it’s interesting because it goes deeper in the depths, but also deeper in myself. In that moment, before I start doing big depths,

for me, it’s really important that I’m clear with myself, that I have a very clear purpose. If I don’t have that, it’s going to be very hard.

Do you… you’re saying this kind of just starts to happen organically and people talk a lot about meditation and I think that people sometimes don’t understand that just the intention that you have is a kind of meditation in itself and having clarity is a form of meditation, but would you still use some formal meditation practice? Yeah, and it’s interesting.

I do meditation because I feel I need it. I don’t do it because it’s supposed to help. I feel I need it and this is also what I like in life in general, you know, not to do things because somebody tells you this is good, but you know, do it because your inner self is telling you that you need this now.

How important is visualization for you for these big dives? Is that something you do or not so much? Sometimes it’s not crucial.

I wouldn’t say it’s crucial. I can do it or I do it when maybe mentally I’m not so… when I’m, let’s say, struggling a little bit mentally, then maybe visualization can help me, but when I’m in the right mindset, I don’t really need it because I do, at the end of the day, during the season, I do so many dives, so many repetitions that, you know, this kind of, this automaticism or how you say, this automatic pilot, it’s building up and then the competition is there and I don’t need to additionally work on that. This is what visualization is, but if I feel that my mind or my mental strength is maybe not so there, then it’s a nice tool, I think. What about narcosis?

At 120 plus meters, are you getting strong narcosis? Is it something that you’ve had to deal with or adapt to or is it being less of an issue for you as it is for some people? That’s very interesting.

Narcosis is not something I am struggling with. I had it maybe, I don’t know, two or three times, but not during my deepest dives, not during my deepest dives. I had it, let’s say, that was basically the previous world championship in Kaz, because it was the Mediterranean, it was in October, the water was super cold and I am not used to dive that deep.

I did a huge PB in the Mediterranean and I felt it. I felt it during the training, but I was very much aware. It was almost like, whoa, that’s it.

I was like, okay, this is it, this is how it feels. I had full control of it, it was not crazy, but I am really not, let’s say, a big fan of it because some people are kind of okay with it, some people even like it. I don’t like it, I don’t want it, but I kind of prepared myself and I knew that is specific, let’s say, territory and I was not used to that cold and there, obviously, it looked like I was more prone for the narcosis because it was cold.

But otherwise, look, as I said, my deepest dives, I remember everything. You can also see, it’s not just flawless. You see these dives, 120, 122, they look quite flawless, but I was so, so much present.

I didn’t do any mistakes because my mind was so clear, so there. Yeah, it’s so interesting that different people have a very different experience of narcosis. I mean, obviously, the experience, you said you don’t like it, but also you don’t have it very often, so it’s not something that you get used to.

Like for me, I get it very often, so I get used to it. I wouldn’t consider it to be negative, but it is challenging that it brings an extra dimension, an extra challenge for staying present. But what’s so fascinating is how different we are with that.

I mean, I’m getting narcosis, I think the first time I was just hitting 60 meters, I’m starting to get very undeniable narcosis symptoms and some people are diving 100 plus meters, they’re not feeling something. You’re diving 120 plus meters, you’re not feeling narcosis. It’s very interesting.

And what is going on because you’d think that you’d see some correlation between… I thought that perhaps even like a history of drug use or psychedelic use or things like this could be… But it seems like different people from all different spheres of life are having a very different experience and I’d love to know more about that.

Yeah, that’s very interesting. Yeah, we were always talking about what could affect narcosis. For me, one factor and I’m sure about it is definitely the level of relaxation or stress on the other hand.

I don’t think we all have the same level of relaxation and I don’t think we necessarily all have the awareness of how really relaxed we can be underwater. Maybe this could also be connected with what I mentioned before with having the purpose, not having the purpose as reaching the goal and only aiming for this goal and just either if you die in between but you want to reach this goal. I can hardly imagine that you can be relaxed when you want something that bad.

So this could also affect a little bit. So as I said, maybe having a bigger meaning, a bigger purpose, a different purpose, not like just aiming for this stupid number but like surrendering to that level that you really just belong there and maybe you would have less strong narcosis. I don’t know.

Or it could be just the metabolism or it could be the packing or I don’t know. I mean everything you said there, that’s how I dive. I don’t even have a dive computer.

I really do feel that I’m extremely relaxed, especially on my deeper dives. I think I’m more relaxed on my deeper dives. Maybe you’re too relaxed then.

I’m too relaxed. I’ve gone so far into relaxation that I’ve popped out the bottom into stress, the underworld of stress. And that’s why, by the way, I always say you need to have like in order to be really, really max efficient, you need to have the balance between relaxation and focus.

I’m not saying this is in your case, but in general, this is something super important. Well, you know, I would say that physically and in the level of the mind, yeah, it’s possible for me to be extremely, extremely relaxed. But there’s also, sometimes the mind has to be not just relaxed, but clear.

It’s not the same thing, you know, and definitely maybe that clarity has been lacking for me. Because a lot of what I’ve been going through has been challenging, you know, on a deeper level. I think this is a really good point, actually.

Maybe what I meant was actually this. I hear, because I can become relaxed almost. I’m so good at it, like on a sort of like physical, I can reduce my heart rate just by thinking about it.

I can get my mind to sort of like stay in one kind of area, but it’s not the same as a kind of emptiness or clearness or something like this. That’s an interesting topic for sure. And how it relates to narcotic, very interesting.

Maybe we’ll know more one day. Yeah. Or maybe not, because not everything is meant to be revealed.

Even better. Yes. We’re learning too much about freediving.

Look what’s happening to the freediving world. We’re thinking way too much.

[Speaker 2] (53:57 – 53:59)

This is the curse of the humanity.

[Speaker 1] (54:00 – 1:06:31)

We just think too much. So just a couple more questions here. Well, you never did the Desert Island questions last time.

The what? So you did your interview so long ago that you never did the Desert Island questions, which is kind of like a special section that I put into the podcast with some fun questions for the Patreon supporters and make a little section. But we’ll do that to finish up.

Just the last couple of questions here. What do you think the biggest, for all those people out there who aspire to be deeper freedivers, maybe we’ve covered this topic already in the conversation to some extent, but what do you think the biggest mistakes are that

are stopping these deep freedivers in there? What are the mistakes they’re making again and again that you see being surrounded by people training?

What’s the main things? Well, it’s good. It’s important to be motivated, to be disciplined, to be committed.

But this can very quickly change into obsession, which is never good in life in general. So kind of you need to find a balance. I think we covered this topic probably during the talk.

It’s good. It’s important to be committed, but you also need to be chilled and relaxed. And this is something that I would really apply to freedivers, to people in general.

Treat yourself sometimes, as I said before. It doesn’t always make fun. You don’t need to eat broccoli.

You can treat yourself. It’s okay also to have a glass of wine before you are training next day. It’s fine.

Don’t feel guilty about it though. It’s very important. So yeah, I see this tendency.

It’s quite strong in freediving. I don’t know if it’s generally in other sports, but in freediving you can really fuck up because as I said, when your nervous system is triggered, you go backward and you go backward. Yeah, because in another sport like sprinting, even your mind can be such a mess, but you can still come onto the track.

Boom, you hear the gun and run as fast as you can. You’re just firing muscles. Yeah, because it’s so physical, but freediving is not.

And I think climbing is similar as well because you could be making a crucial move or need to make a crucial move. You need the confidence. You need the clarity.

You need the assurity in yourself that you can do that and do it in a relaxed way. And it’s a long process. It’s a long process.

So don’t expect results. Try not to have expectations because the moment we put these expectations on ourselves, we just really make it harder. And as they say very often, try to enjoy the process.

Try to be aware of your life and not only freediving for God’s sake. You need to think also life is much more than just freediving. And that’s related with this obsession.

So I think if you have, you know, if you’re more chilled, but in the same time committed, I think this is a good balance. Yeah, I think I guess this is the most often I see this problem and the recovery obviously goes with that, you know, because if you are, let’s say, well, I like to call this, I like to use this word, if you’re obsessed, let’s say, then you don’t have, you don’t have the, let’s say, you don’t listen to your internal compass. You

don’t listen to your inner voice that is telling you, you need to chill out.

You need to rest. You need to rest an extra day. One day is not enough.

Take three days. Yes. Three days off is totally fine.

You will not lose anything. It’s also a very common question. And yeah, basically living life, living life, being present, being grateful that we are now here, you know.

Yeah, I just took three days off from training. I thought I was going to be, have to have to redo my IDA2 again after that, but no, actually. But you know, that’s what you think, especially when you’re like, you’re doing gym and stuff like that.

And you miss, like, I think I didn’t do the gym for like one week, but, but actually I went to the water today. I probably had the best dive session I’ve had for months. But you see, but it’s also fine, man.

Look, this is also, when I said before, I see some people are like diving deep, basically the whole year long, or I don’t know, they are not diving for a really long time. And then they come finally in the sea and then they go, boom, straight to deep diving, you know. Come on, chill out.

It’s okay. And how important do you think a training plan is, like to enable it to be flexible? But I see a lot of people who talk about training, they do training, but they don’t have a plan.

So I think they tend to think very short term and jump in the water and try and do the deepest dives that they can every day and then repeat, repeat, repeat for weeks and weeks on end. So a training plan is important, right? It’s super important.

You need to have some kind of structure. You also need to log your trainings. You need to, if you don’t have any background in sport, especially you need to find for help.

You need to ask a coach and to find a coach. This is all important, but this is now, it depends on which level you are, right? But yeah, if you, if you’re more interested in improving and you want to commit and invest a lot of time and energy into improving in freediving, it makes sense to have some kind of structure and maybe somebody like a mentor or a coach or somebody that can help you here a bit.

Yeah, for sure. There are other things that I would definitely recommend, but I think maybe I covered maybe the main one. This is also, by the way, I can also mention because it’s, it’s, I mentioned it before.

And for me, it’s super important is the purpose. It’s important to know, to know the reason why we do what we do. To have bigger purpose means basically doing things that are coming, that are aligned with you, that are aligned with your purpose, with your life,

with who you are, with, with, with your path, with what you’re supposed to do, with what you’re supposed to be, with your own personal development and not coming from outside reasons.

This is what people are, in general, we are all doing. And it’s a shame. And I think we are really losing a lot of beautiful moments and maybe, maybe in general, we would be more successful if we were actually following our path and not behaving out of expectations from the society.

And what we think is good, right? So aiming for this gold, whatever, record, and then at the end of the day, feeling like shit. I mean, do you think that also is, has something to do with age?

And maybe that’s why they’re not, we don’t see so many deep 25 year old freedivers is that coming to, to move a little bit from the material side of things into the deeper dimension of one’s life and, and realizing that you need a purpose to, to be happy is something that comes a little bit later on for a lot of people, perhaps. I think maturity definitely is, is a big, is a big gift. If we talk about freediving, definitely it comes very, very useful.

Maturity, absolutely. I don’t know, maybe the reason why there are not so many young freedivers still in our sport is because it’s so young, the sport itself. And there is no, again, no education, no clubs, no schools really for, for, for, for this sport.

It’s not so much involved into the school system and so on. So we will see maybe in the future it will change as the sport will changing. But I think that, again, I think freediving is just so specific, so unique, so unique that, um, and I’m sure also there are some other sports where actually age is, is, is a bonus, uh, rather than a curse, no?

Yeah. I mean, uh, triathlons a good example, you know, like you have these people doing like one of the hardest things in the world, like an iron man, but why are they like, so that, you know, they’re getting younger, the top guys, but you know, it’s like, uh, people are peaking in the mid to late thirties, you know, like, which is incredible considering the amount of volume and heavy impact to do, but it requires such a huge amount of, uh, maturity to, to not just technically how to pace yourself on a race that’s seven or eight hours long, where you’re going at absolute full speed the whole time racing other people, but also to, to develop the mental endurance and, uh, and, you know, stamina psychologically to be able to go through something like that. Resilience. Um, all right.

So let’s, um, well, we’ll, you know, there’s one final question I want to ask you for the main part of the interview, but, uh, let’s quickly go through these desert Island questions because I, there’s been a few interviews since I’ve done these for the patrons. So, um, I should reward them for supporting the show. Thank you very much to a Patreon supporters to, uh, uh, have been supporting for years and, uh, I love you all and a million

thank yous for helping out this section of the podcast.

Desert Island questions is a little addition. We put on for the listening pleasure of the Patreon supporters. It’s about eight, nine questions.

I asked the guests fun questions, things like, uh, if you could take three books with you to a desert Island, what would the B if you could only eat one meal for the rest of your life? What would it be? Uh, if you could meet one famous person from history, who would that be questions like this?

If you want to hear the answers, you can consider supporting the show and supporting me on this free diving journey by going to patreon.com slash free dive cafe. Okay. Just, um, one last question to take us out.

You know, uh, traditionally on the podcast, I always ask the, the guest, um, why did he free dive? That’s always the last question. And you know, you answered that question last time, but I wonder if you can answer it again, but also reflecting on maybe how your philosophy of free diving has evolved over the last five years.

And you make it very clear of what your philosophy is as we have these discussions, but, uh, yeah. Why do you free dive? I would like to know what did I answer back then?

I can’t remember. I never got that far in the interview. No, I thought that maybe you have it written.

No, I’m not as organized as that. I think, uh, actually I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer was actually the same as today. I think at that time, probably I was already having this.

I have, I was having this vision that I don’t really have a clear vision. Um, and I’m totally fine with that. Uh, it’s, uh, you know, uh, I, I believe that free diving happened to me.

Um, it was meant to be. And, uh, I always said that I believe that it was kind of a gift from life to me, a tool, uh, to explore life basically, you know? And, um, but I think I can answer maybe better to this question on that veranda when, you know, when we are going to be a bit older.

Okay.
[Speaker 2] (1:06:32 – 1:06:35)
Yeah. With a glass of good wine. Nice. Okay.
[Speaker 1] (1:06:35 – 1:08:31)
Wow. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Another fantastic talk. It was a real pleasure. It was so fun.

I hope, uh, we started off a little bit, uh, rough there with the microphones and the sun and everything. It was like, no, but it was like, I had to be like this and then I had to be this. And then I had to be like, why, why, why, why is a link?

I have to be like completely motionless. Like, why are you doing this to me with Kate? It was fine.

Now it’s just like, he was like, it’s clipping. It’s clipping. I was like, I don’t know what clipping means, but it’s not good.

That was Alenka Artnik. Absolutely amazing to have another chance to talk with her, to train with her and to get to know her a little bit. She’s a very inspiring lady.

And I really think her philosophy of freediving resonates very strongly with myself. And I’m sure a lot of you guys out there as well. All right.

Keep up to date with me on Instagram. My Instagram is freedive and thrive. If you want to get in touch, you can email me, you can do it for Instagram, or you can email me at Donnie at freediveandthrive.com.

Visit freediveandthrive.com to see information about courses and coaching and workshops and anything that’s happening here in Dahab, the little blue. If you need a place to stay in Dahab while you’re freediving, I have a little apartment here to rent connected to the little blue as well, which is fantastic. And yeah, apart from that, you know what to do.

Have a beautiful time in the water and dive safe.